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Old 30-06-2009   #1
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Sony Patents Method To Emulate The PS2 On The PS3

Just came across this from Kotaku

Quote:
Some background: when the PS3 first launched, it was backwards-compatible, meaning you could play PlayStation 2 games on your new PlayStation 3. The 20GB and 60GB units released in North America and Japan featured hardware emulation (they literally had a PS2 chip inside), while those released in PAL territories featured software emulation (similar to how the 360 handles original Xbox games).

Later, though, this feature was removed. Anyone buying a 40GB, a later model of the 80GB or the 120GB PS3 can't play a single PS2 game on them. It was a stupid, stupid move on the part of Sony.

A patent discovered by Siliconera, however, suggests that Sony might be re-thinking this stance. Filed in December 2008, it's basically a patent for a method that would allow the PS3's Cell chip to translate code from the PS2's Emotion Engine. Not half-assed software emulation (which in previous PS3 models couldn't run some games), full, total replication of the functionality of the Emotion Engine.

Which means, theoretically at least, you could play any PS2 game on any PS3, regardless of the model or year of release.

source
GT5 + Redesigned more affordable PS3 + Resurrected BC = Major units shifted


*Update* Ign reflects on the information

Quote:
According to a report by Siliconera, Sony recently filed a patent for a new cell-based emotion engine emulator, which could be capable of processing PS2 code through the PS3's existing processors. The processes were loosely outlined in the patent filing, but in essence, Sony is developing a way to translate and store Emotion Engine processing data within the PS3. In other words, this means that Sony could theoretically bring backwards compatibility to all current and previous PS3 units with a simple firmware update, regardless of hardware configuration. The filing makes no specific mention of the technology's intended purpose or when or if it will be implemented in a PS3 update, however, it seems pretty safe to assume that Sony will eventually bring it to console. After all, a firmware-enabled emulator is an extremely cost effective way to add an invaluable feature to the device without major hardware revisions.

Last edited by SaintAvi; 30-06-2009 at 07:36 PM..
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Old 30-06-2009   #2
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They have to quit selling the PS2 so people can upgrade. Look at what MS did with the original XBOX when the 360 came out. They completely dropped 1st Party support.

MS went through a lot of trouble on getting some BC in the 360 (wasted a lot of in house talent) to match the original intent of Sony to always be BC. Then Sony drops BC for whatever reason and then know we find a patent for Sony to have the cell due BC. I wouldn't get to pumped on this.

Sony needs not only have BC but at this point they need to greatly improve the BC all around.
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Old 30-06-2009   #3
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I enjoy that they are supporting their hardware this long, I know if I was not able to afford a PS3 I would be pretty proud of Sony for still pushing out new software for it while they have a new console at their forefront.

I remember the days of SEGA during the console wars, I really lost respect for them in
the way they handled their machines, support would evaporate almost overnight for
the saturn or the dreamcast, leaving loads of burned consumers.

I applaud them for having supported it this long but still believe dropping backwards compatibility greatly made the console less desirable. I personally called 5-6 stores last year to find a backwards compatible model and would've likely held out longer until
I found one.
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Old 30-06-2009   #4
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I still see a problem with that, the old 80GB console, MotorStorm and Metal Gear Solid 4 bundle used emulation basically as described since the Emotion Engine wasn't present in those models but the PS2 Graphics Synthesizer was, all current models don't have either chip so even if Sony could emulate the Emotion Engine perfectly, if they can't emulate both at the same time you still can't play PS2 games. Would I love for an update to come out that would make my model (80GB MotorStorm Bundle) play PS2 games better, of course but they were limited run and don't make up a huge number of the consoles available so I can't see Sony spending the money to do so. If they got the cost down though they could start making models like the MotorStorm or Metal Gear Solid 4 bundle again with perfect Emotion Engine emulation, sell it for the same price and that would move units, but people are so focused on a price cut it seems they are willing to do without PS2 compatibility.
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Old 30-06-2009   #5
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yea it seemed like Sony always wanted to have BC in their systems and then they took it out which confused me but i think it was a good idea for Sony to keep the PS2 on the market i mean they should prob phase it out with in the next year two years tops but i mean they make money on all the PS2's sold and not on the PS3's so it makes more sense to try to sell the PS2 and make money
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Old 30-06-2009   #6
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The gpu functions could likely be done, the machine is far more advanced than it's predecessor. As generations go on the hardware becomes more multifaceted and
more robust, there are emulators for the PC out currently that can allow the playing
of PS2 titles on PC's that are years old.

If an amateur programmer can do something like that without the support of a major
conglomerate like sony, and get it to work on countless variations of PC's , a team
of professionals should be just fine creating architecture to support PS2 functionality
across a platform that is widely homogeneous
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Old 30-06-2009   #7
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When im in the store, the thing that usually sells a PS3 (in my experience) is when i mention it can play all the PS2 games. People feel surprised and buy it because they have some favorite games at home that they would like to play. Honestly if that doesnt sell the PS3 then the fact it plays movies does.

I knew emulation was coming though, its not that hard to support. I expect we wont see it till a price cut or slim PS3 hits the market though.
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Old 30-06-2009   #8
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really why dont people jsut their PS2 games on their own PS2? i mean it is alittle more convient to play them on the PS3 then you dont need both hooked up. but i could see alot of people that want the BC never use it
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Old 30-06-2009   #9
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Shelf space is limited, switching cables is cumbersome and I know a lot of people who
use the BC, you cant really judge from your own circle of people
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Old 30-06-2009   #10
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yea i know that im just saying i dont really hear of that many people using it but then again it isnt really that talked about and stuff but i suppose there are quite a few that use it i mean i use it every now and then but if i had a PS3 without it i would just my PS2 no problem
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Old 30-06-2009   #11
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The backwards compatibility is added value to the console from a consumer perspective.
Should their 8 year old PS2 ever breakdown, their games won't ever got for naught as they'd have a backup plan.

Should they not own a PS2 it still just conveys the feeling of added value and in and
of itself a cool feature to have
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Old 30-06-2009   #12
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Its mostly adults (parents) or big time PS2 owners. I think most tech savy owners or people that follow PS3 alot already know why they want it and probably already do own it. Like me i wanted it when i first got it, but i dont use it now except for MGS3, however the fact that its there for games like Buzz is great.
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Old 30-06-2009   #13
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yea i got the 60GB version just because it was the best for BC and had the most stuff added on but i figured that i wouldnt really use the BC that much or at all like the PS2 for the PSone but i still wanted it. but i really wouldnt be that heart broken if my PS3 didnt have BC because i have my PS2 but then you are right what would i do if my PS2 broke
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Old 30-06-2009   #14
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That does bring up a good point, but obviously Sony hasn't seen the need to spend the money to develop the technology to emulate both chips, the system has been selling steadily without it so unless there is a major drop in sales I can't see them being in a huge rush to get it out to market, they don't make money now, why add more costs when people are screaming for a price cut. Sony is content with 3rd place in consoles sold and as much as people hate on them for it, as long as the game division is profitable I don't think they are going to worry too much about trying to beat the 360 with adding backwards compatibility, I mean the XBOX 360 is nowhere near compatible with all XBOX games and you need a hard drive just to have the feature at all which throws the Arcade console out the window. At least the people who really wanted it had the chance with the models Sony offered, they all did a better job than the XBOX's attempt.
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Old 30-06-2009   #15
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It is selling steadily sure, their goal is for it to sell like cold water in hell though.
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Old 30-06-2009   #16
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An idea i had for sony thanks to this thread. Some people will like this idea others will hate it, but here goes.

Sony should stop production of PS2. Its having HIGH sales which is good for Sony, but at the same time thats all potential PS3 buyers. Its time to stop making it, still support it with games for like a year and what not, but stop making it.

In place of it relase a budet PS3. This ps3 has only capabilities to play PS3 games, PS2 games, Hard Drive, and 2 USB slots. (ethernet and HDMI obviously). Thats it. No music, no movies, no internet browser etc. If anything make a whole new XMB for it too. This will take the place of the PS2 and be cheap.

360 gets away with arcade, and Sony gets away selling PS2 till this day. If they can make a budget PS3 i think it will do just as well and boost PS3 sales ALOT. Imagine seeing a budget PS3 for like 200 bucks, no its not 99 bucks, but its damn cheap (even beats the Wii). Is its profitable for sony? IDk as i dont know how much just those features cost, but cutting out the rest cuts at least 150 to 200 off the production.
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Old 30-06-2009   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin S. View Post
An idea i had for sony thanks to this thread. Some people will like this idea others will hate it, but here goes.

Sony should stop production of PS2. Its having HIGH sales which is good for Sony, but at the same time thats all potential PS3 buyers. Its time to stop making it, still support it with games for like a year and what not, but stop making it.

In place of it relase a budet PS3. This ps3 has only capabilities to play PS3 games, PS2 games, Hard Drive, and 2 USB slots. (ethernet and HDMI obviously). Thats it. No music, no movies, no internet browser etc. If anything make a whole new XMB for it too. This will take the place of the PS2 and be cheap.

360 gets away with arcade, and Sony gets away selling PS2 till this day. If they can make a budget PS3 i think it will do just as well and boost PS3 sales ALOT. Imagine seeing a budget PS3 for like 200 bucks, no its not 99 bucks, but its damn cheap (even beats the Wii). Is its profitable for sony? IDk as i dont know how much just those features cost, but cutting out the rest cuts at least 150 to 200 off the production.
The problem with that is the software to do music and movies is already
developed, the PS3 OS was carefully tailored to work in conjunction with
the hardware, so removing those features will result in a lighter OS but
the hardware will remain the same, needlessly splitting their audience
by not giving them features they've already spent the money on to develop.

The 360 gets away with the arcade because it strips away features that
are not required to get the same experience the other guy is getting, the
majority if not all 360 games do not require use of the HD, cut it, wireless
control not needed pack in a wired version, cut it, HDMI port not needed
cut it. In addition to that, the cooling system is cheaper as evidenced by
all the red ringed consoles which makes the 360 a cheaper console in every sense
of the word.

Also, cutting those features will make them look like hypocrites after all the
touting they did earlier about the PS3 being the best value out there.
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Old 30-06-2009   #18
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Itd still be the best value you out there as other models will still be offered. This is purely for the PS2 buyers that dont want to spend the 500 bucks getting everything. Give them a console thats cheaper but at a price.

Without music and all that the system doesnt need to be built to run it. You probably cut the hard drive down to 40 again. Keep HDMI because thats just a given. Cut Wifi, but offer Wifi adapters that will use the usb slot.

Yeah they already developed that part, and i was one of the people using that in a argument on why they shouldnt cut support for another OS. However its obviously cutting cost if they are thinking about it anyways. You dont need as strong of a board if its not doing all this other stuff. Basically you boot up and get a PS2 like menu, except with friends and PSN. MAYBE keep blu ray movie support. However market this as purely the gaming side of PS3 and i think it will sell.

I dont even like the idea of cutting features. However i think it will offer Sony an advantage and they will still offer the real console alongside it. You can do this or just merely offer a slim, which seems to be coming true here very soon.

They did it with PSP, and while the Go is not cheaper it should be and can be. Its saving money and offering a consumer the alternate choice.

Last edited by Dustin S.; 30-06-2009 at 05:19 PM..
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Old 30-06-2009   #19
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There's HDMI on all XBOX 360 consoles available today, including the Arcade, it just doesn't come with the cable. If Sony wanted though, just release a PlayStation 3 without wireless Internet and drop the hard drive size to 20GB, should save on costs and be able to produce a usable version for less, throw in backwards compatibility software, sell it for $200-300 and you're set as it's within the price range of the Wii at $280 and the XBOX 360.
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Old 30-06-2009   #20
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If it can decode blu-rays, trying to reduce costs by not including the mp3 playback will
save only pennies if anything at all. The system is a monster, and removing trivialities
really only removes value for the consumer if the system has no problem running it.
If the system is still expected to run Killzone 2, including Mp3 playback doesnt seem
to push the hardware in any costly ways.

If the rumors are right of the $300 slim, removing those features is not necessary
at all as the redesign alleviated a big part of the cost without having to go back on their
position of offering what you need right outta the box as well as including a big 120gb HD.
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